Pasayten's Methow Valley Bulletin Board

Forest Service workers were not silent at the Newhouse meeting in Twisp. They were downstairs speaking with the staffers. At least 6 were at one table. Take a look at how this would affect our ecomomy here, you who are saying get rid of the grift.

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More - Forest Service folks leaving. There is a lot of expertise going out the door.

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/n ... 89ab0.html?
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Pay attention Ken.

Nope! Just get rid of the corruption and grift. ‘Bout time.

They're trying to privatize the SSA
https://crooksandliars.com/2025/03/mart ... y-bringing

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We will see if this lasts….

“On Wednesday, March 5, the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) issued a 45-day stay on the termination of U.S. Department of Agriculture probationary employees. By Wednesday, March 12, the Department will place all terminated probationary employees in pay status and provide each with back pay, from the date of termination. The Department will work quickly to develop a phased plan for return-to-duty, and while those plans materialize, all probationary employees will be paid.”

https://www.usda.gov/about-usda/news/pr ... -employees?
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https://bsky.app/profile/joshtpm.bsky.s ... qxruw46c2g
Who needs food that's safe for consumption anyways?

This from those who repeatedly get personal and nasty (and want personal harm) to those they disagree with and lose the argument. Such clowns like Al Greene the ‘ragin cane’! Lol

just-jim wrote: Wed Mar 05, 2025 5:21 pm .
Vern retired from the DOD, surely one of the most inefficient, dysfunctional and wasteful organizations. However, he enjoys a retirement check, his health insurance, his VA benefits and Social Security….and expects them to all show up in a timely manner.
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Oh, that's right. I remember him bragging about torturing and abusing his fellow soldiers when he was in the service. What a stand-up guy.

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Vern retired from the DOD, surely one of the most inefficient, dysfunctional and wasteful organizations. However, he enjoys a retirement check, his health insurance, his VA benefits and Social Security….and expects them to all show up in a timely manner.

But yeah, big gubmit is the problem.
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Yeah, so do you hike on trails you built yourself when you go to town and buy groceries? Do you get anything in the mail ever? You must generate your own electricity too!

You must live a most interesting life.

mister_coffee wrote: Sun Mar 02, 2025 6:14 am I'm waiting for the day Vern realizes that some government service he depends on no longer exists. Because his cult leader and the tech bro controlling him wanted to make a mess.

Gave up on government services shortly after retiring especially after seeing how dysfunctional some of the government agencies are.

I'm waiting for the day Vern realizes that some government service he depends on no longer exists. Because his cult leader and the tech bro controlling him wanted to make a mess.

Jingles wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 7:34 pm

just-jim wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 4:11 pm As usual Vern never misses a chance to trash FS workforce….although he, again, is wrong. The volunteers he speaks about are mostly equipped and trained by the FS….that is required. And outfitters have seldom cut more than a token amount of the larger blowdown.

Again Jim knows not of what he speaks one of the local outfitters spent 3 days clearing and cutting out the Andrew's creek trail for just above trailhead to Spainish camp, another time a different outfitter spent several days clearing the trail of blowdowns from Billy Goat trail head to Mcalls gulch. As far as training required from the FS I refuse to sit for 8 hrs being told how to operate a, 5 foot cross cut hand saw,only a total idiot needs to be trained on how to operate hand, non power tools, if they need that kind of training they probably should not leave the padded playpen

Vern never references any instances - it’s always ‘sometime’ in the past.

Two instances of Outfitters opening trails - which I dont dispute - are ANECDOTAL.

Most all the higher elevation trails in the Methow come into spring needing clearing about the same time. If you are a trail manager - are you going to put your efforts into clearing a few trails where a relatively small number of people are headed? Or, put your efforts into trails along Hiway 20…and in lower elevation, popular trails? It is admirable the outfitters took those tasks on - sometimes.

I did almost 30 years working a lot more closely with Outfitters than he ever did - I listened to their complaints and concerns. I still enjoy seeing and saying hi to them, when I see them today….we reflect on old days and share some tales. We respect each other. AND, I managed a good portion of the trail and backcountry/wilderness during that same period. I think I have a pretty good perspective on how this stuff works

Vern led a few head of stock around for one of his buddies….for a few years…..for part of the year. LOL
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just-jim wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 4:11 pm As usual Vern never misses a chance to trash FS workforce….although he, again, is wrong. The volunteers he speaks about are mostly equipped and trained by the FS….that is required. And outfitters have seldom cut more than a token amount of the larger blowdown.

Again Jim knows not of what he speaks one of the local outfitters spent 3 days clearing and cutting out the Andrew's creek trail from just above trailhead to Spainish camp, another time a different outfitter spent several days clearing the trail of blowdowns from Billy Goat trail head to Mcalls gulch. As far as training required from the FS I refuse to sit for 8 hrs being told how to operate a, 5 foot cross cut hand saw,only a total idiot needs to be trained on how to operate hand, non power tools, if they need that kind of training they probably should not leave the padded playpen

PAL wrote: Sat Mar 01, 2025 6:53 pm Some humor.
Apparently Trump and Musk just found out that there are more than 100,000 cattle guards
on our National Forests. Musk sent out a memo demanding that they account for how they
spend their time, but soon after Trump simply fired them all.

Sorry Jim but I have never taken a training course through the FS on how to operate a hand saw and have spent numerous days cutting logs out and rock raking trails. If you need training on how to operate a hand saw maybe you should stay on the playground. So yes I trash the FS because although they might have book learning IMO they are for the most part useless.

This rif of cattle guards showed up during the Obummer years, when they were questioning if they were actually needed or doing their job. Same hash different pan time to get something original. Dems can't even get their schit in one sock with something original

Some humor.
Apparently Trump and Musk just found out that there are more than 100,000 cattle guards
on our National Forests. Musk sent out a memo demanding that they account for how they
spend their time, but soon after Trump simply fired them all.

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At the noon demonstration at the MVCC, today (GREAT turnout, BTW!)….I spoke to a couple of current FS employees - and a couple, like myself, who are retired.

Today, total FS employees in the Methow who have ‘permanents’ status….which would include those who work only 6 or 9+ or so months/year, rather than year round ….is 27. That is after the 9 who were recently fired. I was stunned to hear it was that small! I cant imagine that the addition of ‘seasonal’ positions would bring the total number to much more than 75 or so.

Back when there were two Ranger Districts in the Methow (they were combined into the now ‘Methow Valley RD’ about 1998-ish) there were in excess of 100 permanent employees. One person today quoted me a figure of 117. I do recall - then - that the total of permanent and seasonal employees was, in at least one summer, 225 or so.

There is less timber being cut - due to a variety of reasons - and those activities associated with that have declined; engineering, road maintenance positions, etc. And much less - or no - new stuff is getting built. And generally budgets for land management agencies - other than in fire - have been steadily declining.

But, dont think - for a minute - that a workforce of 75 can maintain/replace the facilities, monitor all the vegetation and wildlife resources…..and deal with the public. Plus provide fire protection, etc - on a land base of a million plus acres.
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As usual Vern never misses a chance to trash FS workforce….although he, again, is wrong. The volunteers he speaks about are mostly equipped and trained by the FS….that is required. And outfitters have seldom cut more than a token amount of the larger blowdown.

You have to be a special kind of person to believe that you aren't going to be personally impacted by at least some of the cuts that are happening.

And where do you think the economy around here will head? Face it, it's a tourist industry now.
Hey, it could just as well be hunters that leave that a$$ wipe. Oh yes they do, because I go to the hunting camps when they leave and guess what I find. I go to the camps to make sure the fire pits are out and see what else I might find. I have found some good stuff. Nice knives, BBQ utensils, grates, etc.
Yes, Vern, I am thankful for the work that those entities have done and the BCH will probably continue to do.
We can partner up with an employee and work with them. This is being discussed right now by the FS.

PAL wrote: Wed Feb 26, 2025 10:04 pm
And yep, we could lose access to lands. No more trapping Vern.

Chains across roads don't stop people now, even signs on WDFW lands don't stop people why will lack of gov employees make a difference in the future?

Closed bathrooms don't mean a thing to the supposed civilized users of public lands, just look at the amount of dirty a$$ wipe throughout the forest often just out of sight of trail head

Actually Pearl it'll mean more trapping as the bunny snuggling skinney sking, snowshoeing, spandex wearing, granola munchers won't be going into the woods because they will be inconvenienced

Hey be honest with yourselves in regards to trail clearing, if it weren't for the Outfitters, Back Country Horsemen and numerous volunteers a good portion of the trails would not get opened and cleared even with the FS fully manned. If you have traversed many of the trails they are not maintained as they are supposed to be, cleared of brush 3 feet from centerline, rocks larger than a clenched fist removed from trail tread, water bars installed.
Thanks to the previous ranger a lot of the former trails were abandoned and no maintenance was done on them.
The BCH rebuilt the bridge at Eureka creek, the outfitters are usually the first ones into the wilderness and spend most of the day cutting out the blowdowns, in fact they usually have to make a special trip to open the trail they plan to use, IMO the FS trail crews are as useful as teats on a boar hog.
Prime example several years ago I went to district headquarters to inquire if the log jam on the Methow trail had been clears from 2 years prior? I told "1 of the 3 man crew was sick.". OK so what are the other 2 doing? " They need a minimum of 3 people on a crew". Yet the outfitters and volunteers often go out as individuals and get the job done. But be gov employees they can't work alone? That's why there is waste need multiple people to do aone person job, except drive their own gov vehicle to a job site.
With the cuts imagine how much Co2 won't be emitted with every employee driving their own TAXPAYER provided vehicle.
In regards to fighting wildfires the FS doesn't fight them anyhow they "manage" them they haven't actually faught a fire since mobydick was a minnow

Yes, I too am concerned about access. Even if closed down, which would mainly mean restrooms locked and maybe a chain across the access roads, those lands belong to us. We need to take them back. I sympathize with the FS but closing things down would have a big impact on the Valley's economy. If there is a major collapse, no one is going to be harrassing us for walking on our lands.
Yeah, we need to hear from the Outfitters!
Of course there are ways to move in the forest without maintained, manicured trails. Animal trails are our main way of hiking. However, what about the disabilities act.
Elon and #47 have never set foot on a trail, I betcha.
Encouraging words David.
This Sat. Twisp Community center, noon.

PAL wrote: Thu Feb 27, 2025 8:14 am I do think the selling off of public lands would take alot of time. That's in our favor, and Congress might have something to say about it, but so far Congress is a lump. But there are credible death threats against them. Really.
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Yeah, but absent Congressional approval (which will require that Congress do something, rather than sit idly by) I think the courts would uphold any challenges (and there would be many) to hypothetical federal land sales. Which would be a big mess. I don't think there are trillions of dollars slushing around in the world waiting to be invested in BLM land in Northern Nevada or Western Utah. And I don't think the people with the big money would close on such a deal unless they thought there was an extremely good chance they could keep the land.

Gas and Oil? Well, the producers in the states aren't interested in increasing production because more production will lower prices which makes a lot of their product unprofitable.

Other minerals? All of that costs a lot of money to develop and in the best case is a low-profit-margin business. And the time between when you put the money down and when you can start making money is probably five years at the minimum and likely more like ten. A lot can happen in ten years.