The great Epstein unravelling

[mister_coffee]

I don't really buy that Murdoch & co are maneuvering to dispose of Trump and replace him.

It is true that through self-inflicted injuries Trump has given himself two powerful enemies: Murdoch and Musk. Those two men control nearly all of the information warfare and propaganda system that keeps Trump in power. It is notable that X is elevating posts about Epstein over other right-wing stuff, and that can't be an accident.

Although it is important to remember that cults are at their most dangerous when they start to unravel. I think we are heading for a spike-the-salad-bar-at-taco-time moment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Rajn ... ror_attack

[just-jim]

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[Rideback]

More stories and scoops are coming out by the hour, as well as newly discovered videos of Trump at various gigs.
There's also so many layers and intersections with this whole fiasco that no one seems to be able, so far, to connect with a sharpie. The (non) prosecution of Epstein in FL the first round is ripe with problems for Acosta and even DoJ. The Russians were interspersed throughout the years. The banks didn't do due diligence. The young girls were never given justice under the laws.

And then there's another layer of JD Vance making a stopover in AF2 in MT to take a meeting with Murdoch, his son and executives of their empire the day before the WSJ & NYT pieces broke. Layer in the Paramount purchase by Ellison via his son who want to turn it into a Fox competitor and there's some real heavy hitters that are deciding if they'll use the Epstein connection to push Trump out. It's all so convoluted. And then there's Musk, trying his damnedest to be relevant again.

[mister_coffee]

If you dig too far into this stuff, it will make you crazy. Honestly when I read about it none of it makes very much sense at all.

We still do not know and do not understand how Epstein came into money in the first place. Like I said, his job history on his Wikipedia page isn't consistent with someone who would have that kind of money. He had to have had one or more major scores (that are hitherto unexplained officially) in oder to have the kind of personal fortune and run in the circles he did by the early 1990s.

When you dig on some of the other names of people he worked with or were in contact with, it seems that he was well set up to arrange fraud, detergent banking, or tax evasion for people. Which would go a long way to explain where he got his money and what he really did to make it.

I also don't understand why someone who is worth well north of $500MM would set up a clandestine network to traffic underage females for his friends. I can sort of understand if he had proclivities of his own (and he apparently did) setting up something discreet to take care of his own urges. But he wasn't a total idiot and had to know to expanding it into an operation to supply his buddies (and others) as well massively increased his risks. And you don't get into the billionaire's club by running a prostitution ring. Even if your customers are other billionaires. This just seems insanely reckless, especially from a population of folks that are rarely reckless (well, Elon Musk and Donald Trump are visible exceptions to that).

The timing of Trump's and Epstein's "falling out" is awfully convenient. Since Epstein was certainly under investigation by then and possibly word got out that he was becoming someone to avoid.

At least one of the trafficked girls previously worked at Mar-A-Lago and was "found" by Epstein there. Were there others? Did anyone at Mar-A-Lago get paid for this?

I also have to wonder if whatever financial network Epstein had set up was also used, somehow, by Trump to finance one or more of his comebacks after bankruptcy in the 1990s.

The last two things might go a long way towards explaining what Trump is so freaked out about.

[Rideback]

From The Hill:

"Out of all the things President Trump has done, I would never have imagined it would be the late Jeffrey Epstein that finally dented his political armor and turned his conspiracy-minded base against him.

I confess I feel a little cheap writing about this. So I have to remind myself that this is really the opposite of a conspiracy theory. And just so I don’t keep you in suspense, there is a list of clients related to the billionaire sex offender’s underage trafficking charges, and its existence is a matter of public record.

For those of you lucky enough not to know all the details already, Trump has been talking up Epstein conspiracy theories for years. His base is now hooked on the idea that the case files contain a huge amount of mud-slingable dirt on the rich and famous. During the 2024 campaign, Trump promised to make the files public and, in February, he even held a public event at the White House to release the “first phase” of the information.

Attorney General Pam Bondi — the official Trump tasked with the release — when asked about the Epstein client list and when it would be released, responded, “It’s sitting on my desk right now.”

Now, suddenly, Trump and Bondi are telling everyone to move along, there is nothing to see here. In a memo closing the case, released on Sunday of the July 4 holiday weekend, Bondi said there was no so-called “client list,” that no more information would be released, and that the case was closed.

Trump’s subsequent reactions have been equally inexplicable. He has gone from promising his followers amazing things to shouting at them for asking questions. He even published a post on Truth Social “firing” his supporters for refusing to drop the inquiry.

“Their new SCAM is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein Hoax, and my PAST supporters have bought into this ‘bulls—,’ hook, line, and sinker,“ the president posted Wednesday. “Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work, don’t even think about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I don’t want their support anymore!”

Trump is also now claiming that Barack Obama and James Comey “made up” the Epstein files. That’s complete nonsense. Epstein was arrested on July 6, 2019, and his New York mansion was raided on the same day. Obama had been out of office for more than two years, and Trump himself was president — the same president, in fact, who had fired Comey on May 9, 2017, for his investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election on Trump’s behalf.

If Trump believes Obama and Comey had anything to do with the Epstein files, he’s an idiot. If Trump believes his supporters will buy this excuse, then he thinks they are.

We know that Bondi’s carefully crafted memo claiming that there is no Epstein “client list” — the quotation marks are in the memo— is also nonsense. There might not have been a “client list” in the FBI’s Epstein files, but the FBI certainly has compiled a list of clients.

When the FBI raided Epstein’s New York mansion, they seized a vast amount of material. In a court memo filed on July 8, 2019, two days after his arrest, the Department of Justice outlined some of the evidence they had seized. This included stacks of compact disks labeled “Young [Name] + [Name].” In short, Epstein kept a carefully curated library of videos showing various people having sex with underage women. Even if Epstein was not actively blackmailing anyone, he sure seems he had plenty of insurance at the ready.

But that’s not the only reason Bondi’s claim is nonsense. There’s also the question of math. Bondi admits that “Epstein harmed over one thousand victims.” But we also know that, once a part of Epstein’s “system,” his victims were trafficked several times.

Virginia Giuffre, for example, described being sexually trafficked multiple times over two years in New York, Palm Beach, the U.S. Virgin Islands and London. Let’s say that each victim was involved, on average, in five incidents. That’s over 5,000 sexual encounters. It’s safe to assume this wasn’t all Epstein. And with over a thousand victims to interview and piles of DVDs labeled with perpetrators’ names, the FBI and Pam Bondi know exactly who was involved.

So the question remains: Why has Trump suddenly turned on his followers on this issue and gone from being a champion of transparency to engaging in one of the clumsiest coverups in American political history? Why is Trump willing to die on the Epstein hill?

Make no mistake, Trump has a lot to lose from protecting Epstein’s clients. His base is furious. If nothing else, he’s now going to get booed at his own rallies. It’s even likely to be a potent issue in the 2026 midterms. House Democrats are already pushing Republicans to subpoena witnesses. You can almost hear them now — “Give us control of Congress and we’ll conduct proper hearings and get to the bottom of the Epstein mess!”

I can only assume that Bondi discovered something in the Epstein evidence that is much more dangerous for Trump than the wrath of his base.

I’d be surprised if it’s evidence that Trump himself was one of Epstein’s clients. Having sex with a 14-year-old at a friend’s house is the kind of thing you would remember — if Trump knew he might be “on the list,” I doubt if he would have made so many promises to release the information. Nonetheless, something in those files has Trump running scared in a way he never has before.

Does someone on the Epstein list have some sort of hold over Trump? I won’t speculate — I’m just asking questions. "

Chris Truax is an appellate attorney who served as Southern California chair for John McCain’s primary campaign in 2008.

[mister_coffee]

The math just doesn't math here.

Not all of the trafficked girls came from the countries where US $2 billion (in the three wire suspicious wire transfers mentioned in the NYT article) was wired to. Even if it did $2 billion seems like a very large expense for "over 1000" trafficked girls. And that wouldn't be the only expense.

You have to wonder, there had to be immigration lawyers working on this to get these girls visas. A lot of lawyers and a lot of legal fees, which I know that even if everything goes smoothly can easily run over $10,000 per case. I would think an operation with that kind of footprint would stand out like a sore thumb.

There had to be a lot of other people working this too. A lot. I wonder why none of them were indicted as co-conspirators? Or if any of them were informants or cooperating witnesses?

The more you think about this, the less it all seems to make any sense at all.

[Rideback]

Asked the question, how many victims did Epstein have:
"Federal investigators have indicated that Jeffrey Epstein harmed over one thousand victims.
According to the Department of Justice, Epstein victimized more than 1,000 individuals, each suffering unique trauma. The sensitive details relating to these victims are intertwined throughout the investigative materials.
It is important to note that a victims' compensation fund established for Epstein's accusers (some as young as 14 years old) paid out more than $120 million to 150 people as of August 2021. However, details regarding the hundreds of additional victims remain unclear."

[Rideback]

Well, the NYT reports there were hundreds of women in an article today.

Nick Fuentes unloads: https://crooksandliars.com/2025/07/libe ... es-unloads

[mister_coffee]

I'd also argue that the amounts in those SARs are implausibly large to be exclusively connected to child sex trafficking.

That would imply hundreds, and more likely thousands, of young women were bought and sold in this operation. I find it hard to believe you could do that without having many employees (probably hundreds), nearly all of whom would have to be trusted to keep their mouths shut and any one of whom could have blown the whole enterprise to smithereens at any moment.

I also have to ask, there are lots of wealthy men, there are lots of depraved men -- but are there really that many wealthy, depraved men?

[Rideback]

https://newrepublic.com/article/198136/ ... russiagate

And to your question of where he got his money: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-did-je ... his-money/

[mister_coffee]

David, there's a big piece in the NYT about the money, posted it somewhere here, where 4 banks all filed SAR/suspicious activity reports and Oregon Sen Wyden has been tracing for 3 yrs that takes this to a whole new level. Over a billion $.

That just reinforces that there is a there there. Still doesn't tell me how he got that much money in the first place. Or even exactly how much money he had.

We know he had a townhouse in Manhattan, a high-end residence (really a pocket Versailles) in Palm Beach, a private island, and his own jet. All of that stuff costs a lot of money. Not just to purchase it, but to keep it and keep using it.

[Rideback]

David, there's a big piece in the NYT about the money, posted it somewhere here, where 4 banks all filed SAR/suspicious activity reports and Oregon Sen Wyden has been tracing for 3 yrs that takes this to a whole new level. Over a billion $.

[mister_coffee]

David, whatever the explosive junk is in there it has Trump rattled. Murdoch's WSJ wouldn't publish their piece in the face of Trump's direct threats unless they had rock solid confirmation. Same with the NYT and its piece. Today's WH comments that they're asking Bondi to release the court testimony is of course a ruse because 1) it's not up to Bondi, the judge has to approve 2) the testimony is relevant to Epstein and Maxwell, not Trump and 3) it's the evidence that counts and that is apparently what Bondi will continue to sit on.

Yes, he obviously is afraid of something. One thing to remember is that Epstein died almost six years ago. So anything that Trump or anyone else did is well beyond the statute of limitations now and they can't be prosecuted for it. Murder doesn't have a statute of limitations generally so if the files had evidence that he killed Epstein (or for that matter someone else) that would be a very different story. But I doubt that because the Merrick Garland Justice Department would have prosecuted Trump for that, almost certainly.

So there never could have been a "day of the rope" as the Q dingbats said.

Two big questions I have about all this both have very little to do with the orange filth in the White House:

1. This operation couldn't have been just Epstein and Maxwell. Who else was working with them?
2. Where did Epstein get his money in the first place? His known business activities on his Wikipedia page don't seem to add up to him being a billionaire. And he certainly didn't inherit the money.

[Rideback]

David, whatever the explosive junk is in there it has Trump rattled. Murdoch's WSJ wouldn't publish their piece in the face of Trump's direct threats unless they had rock solid confirmation. Same with the NYT and its piece. Today's WH comments that they're asking Bondi to release the court testimony is of course a ruse because 1) it's not up to Bondi, the judge has to approve 2) the testimony is relevant to Epstein and Maxwell, not Trump and 3) it's the evidence that counts and that is apparently what Bondi will continue to sit on.

New Quinnipiac polling on Epstein:
"A week after the Justice Department and the FBI effectively closed the investigation into convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein by releasing no new files and concluding that he died by suicide in his jail cell, 17 percent of voters say they approve of the way the Trump Administration is handling the Jeffrey Epstein files, while 63 percent of voters disapprove, and 20 percent did not offer an opinion, according to a Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pea-ack) University national poll of registered voters released today.

Republicans are split with 40 percent approving of the way the Trump administration is handling the Jeffrey Epstein files, 36 percent disapproving and 24 percent not offering an opinion.

Democrats (83 - 2 percent) and independents (71 - 11 percent) disapprove of the way the Trump administration is handling the Jeffrey Epstein files.

"Epstein has been dead and gone for years but his tawdry legacy looms large in a country wanting to know more about who he knew and whether secrets have been buried with him,"
said Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy.
When asked how Pam Bondi is handling her job as U.S. Attorney General, 32 percent of voters approve, while 53 percent disapprove and 15 percent did not offer an opinion.

When asked how Kash Patel is handling his job as Director of the FBI, 36 percent of voters approve, while 47 percent disapprove and 17 percent did not offer an opinion.

When asked how Dan Bongino is handling his job as Deputy Director of the FBI, 34 percent of voters approve, while 41 percent disapprove and 26 percent did not offer an opinion."

[just-jim]

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[mister_coffee]

I have to wonder what explosive information is in there.

Chances are there are multiple very powerful people, not necessarily Americans, whose names have turned up over the course of the investigations. It isn't just about Donald Trump.

There probably are going to be some messy diplomatic and financial skeletons in this particular closet as well.

[just-jim]

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Ken - just like ANY other cult member - will do WHATEVER (feeble) mental gymnastics he NEEDS to do in order to keep taking in more and more and more……

He will excuse/deny ALL facts, arguments, testimony, etc….just to keep standing in line……
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[pasayten]

You guys here never cared about this stuff when the last guy was in charge, maybe this is more about your political knife sharpening than 'finding truth'?

So Ken, Are you OK with trump being a good friend of epstein and hanging out with him? Lots of pics of trump in his early days hanging out with epstein surrounded by young pretty girls... Clinton hung out with him too... I consider them all to be sleazeballs... This is the main reason I will never support trump even though I am a Republican (moderate)... 8647...

[Rideback]

WSJ our with big piece on Epstein's 50th birthday party with letters written by friends including a hand drawn pic by Trump and a letter
https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/eps ... j-reports/

[mister_coffee]

False equivalence and whataboutism don’t make the facts disappear.

All of us with functioning brains knew that Donald Trump was a pervert sex criminal. What is so enjoyable about this moment is watching some of his cult members discover this unpleasant fact as well. Watching people who so enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on others go through mental anguish over this very entertaining. There is kind of a rough justice to this moment.

And let's face it, "it wasn't technically rape" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of someone's character.

I do not believe Trump will suffer any direct consequences for this. So there is no point to getting knives out.

[dorankj]

You guys here never cared about this stuff when the last guy was in charge, maybe this is more about your political knife sharpening than 'finding truth'?

[mister_coffee]

How fitting. Poll finds 69% are not liking the coverup.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump- ... 025-07-17/

More accurately, 69 percent of respondents to the poll think the government is hiding details about Epstein's clients, while 6 percent do not and 25 percent do not know or have no opinion.

[Rideback]

How fitting. Poll finds 69% are not liking the coverup.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump- ... 025-07-17/

[just-jim]

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The Gua has a good timeline here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ga-turmoil

Ya gotta have a program to keep the players straight…
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[mister_coffee]

Cults become infinitely more dangerous when they begin to unravel.