Excuses..

[dorankj]

There is so much wrong with your jibberish and because it’s you, I won’t waste my time. Believe what you will, call me whatever inciteful angle you want. If you ever intend to have an enlightened debate with me, I think you know how to do it. If you wish to continue talking past each other and slinging insults I’m capable of that too.

[dorankj]

You’re right technically especially about gang violence but our most memorable (tragic) recent ones that invoke this unconstitutional approach from your side I.e. Sandyhook and Uvalde and others clearly show mentally disturbed individuals who weren’t put in any way into the system where our current laws (when enforced) easily handle the issue. That’s really why our side is so resistant, we know so often the government low and high is incompetent so when they fail we will do our best just don’t make us helpless with dumb (but possibly well meaning) laws that will never stop the bad guys!

[Rideback]

Mass shooters, gang shootings across the US have rarely been associated with mental illness. It's a distraction.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/blaming-m ... d=84973562

[pasayten]

Banning assault weapons looks like ‘big action,’ but isn’t ‘big impact’: Oklahoma attorney general
Opinion by Fox News Staff - 6h ago

Following a mass shooting that killed four people at a Tulsa hospital, Oklahoma Attorney General John O'Connor reacted to proposals encouraging a new assault weapon ban in America on "Cavuto: Live" Saturday.

Noting the ban may seem like a "big action," O'Connor argued it wouldn't have a "big impact," further explaining how the political focus should be on mental health awareness.

OKLAHOMA ATTORNEY GENERAL JOHN O'CONNOR: Banning assault weapons looks like it's a big action, but it really isn't a big impact. We're going to dance around all this, Neil, for a long time, but the fact is it's criminals and people with some type of either long-term or temporary mental illness or depression. That's the culprit. Only those people shoot people outside of our military.

In America, we discuss things, and I think always we should have these discussions and see where would the outcome exceed the value of the detriment of the imposition of a restriction. So a discussion on this would be a good idea. But again, we can't dance around the topic of we need to train people to detect mental illness or depression. We need to have easier ways to get people into treatment and care quickly. We need to have easier ways to report this mental health. Honestly, mental health has been the stepchild of physical health forever. And we're realizing now that every once in a while, somebody with a mental health issue erupts. In my opinion, we should be devoting attention to that.

[Rideback]

I learned things from this article

https://abcnews.go.com/US/type-gun-us-h ... d=78689504

and this article talks about the AR15's and guns and the guns favored by Chicago gangs
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/01/chicag ... uns-chart/

[pasayten]

Now we are back to bad guys... people... violent culture... where it should be... not the guns themselves.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/michi ... li=BBnb7Kz

[Rideback]

Gang violence isn't limited to Chicago. Chicago has been doing multi levels of programs trying to resolve the gun deaths, as the article points out. They have been proactive. So has LA. What I do see in the big urban cities' pushback is the depth of the problem which with gangs has a different core culture problem than the definition of the mass shooters who are individuals seeking out vulnerable citizenry.

Gangs are more directly addressed by police, meaning that they are known to the police and can be addressed by territory vs the mass shooters are often completely off the radar and can only be addressed by police once an incident is in play.

Sooner or later the 'freedom' of everyday citizens and their children needs to be valued enough for the gun rights advocates to step up and join the team to protect their own families. A good guy with a gun can't protect his family if he's at work and a bad guy with a gun decides he has back pain and goes and shoots up the doctor's office where his wife is a patient. A good guy with a gun can't protect his family 24/7, sooner or later the bad guy with a gun will find a window of opportunity and shoot someone you love. Good news is, there's common ground and that's what has to be put in writing.

[dorankj]

And I knew you were going to use that one too in some sort of freedom point! I generally agree as long as society isn’t required to pay those consequences, that’s the challenge with universal healthcare. I really shouldn’t have to pay for a lifelong smoker’s lung cancer and other known life choices that clearly and chronically lead to expensive health treatment. That still is a more general freedom argument and society does get some say so on how you’re required to live your life to participate in that society, the 2A is specifically and especially set apart to indicate it’s importance and restriction to alter it. If you want to change it do the hard work of passing a constitutional amendment that has the clear power and SCOTUS will be required to uphold. But you already know you won’t get that with us “deplorable” hence your ‘progressive’ political games and emotional outbursts to try and get your way.

[pasayten]

you seem to be blaming Democrats instead of excepting the fact that many Maga's don't support gun control. You guys own that one.

So your straw man argument is just a way to buck accountability and blame Democrats for your lack of the support for the political will to actually DO SOMETHING to keep guns out of the hands of people that really shouldn't have them readily available.

Last time I checked, Chicago was a town filled and run by democrats (75% dems)... Seems they have their gun problems also... Why are they not managing the problem there??? They easily have the majority to instill controls.

2021 Ends as Chicago's Deadliest Year in a Quarter Century
Chicago, as it has in previous years, ended 2021 with more homicides than any other city in the United States
Published January 1, 2022 • Updated on January 1, 2022 at 9:34 pm

The year of 2021 ended as one of the most violent on record in Chicago, as a rise in the number of shootings left more people dead than in any single year in a quarter century, according to statistics released by the police department on Saturday.

According to the department, 2021 ended with 797 homicides. That is 25 more than were recorded 2020, 299 more than in 2019 and the most since 1996. And there were 3,561 shooting incidents in 2021, which is just over 300 more than were recorded in 2020 and a staggering 1,415 more shooting incidents than were recorded in the city in 2019.

Other cities have also seen an increase in the number of homicides. But Chicago, as it has in previous years, ended 2021 with more homicides than any other city in the United States, including New York and Los Angeles, both of which had recorded at least 300 fewer homicides than Chicago for the year as of late December, according to police data from those cities.

“We all know this has been a challenging year here in the city of Chicago,” Police Superintendent David Brown told reporters at a news conference earlier this week. “Too many families are reeling from the loss of (loved) ones due to senseless gun violence.”

Brown said the bulk of the homicides are the result of conflicts between rival gangs.

He has tried to highlight some positive statistics when discussing the monthly crime figures and he continued to do so with the release of the end-of-the-year statistics.

He said, for example, that the department cleared 400 homicides — a total that was higher than in any year in nearly two decades. Saturday’s news release did not specify how many of those cleared homicides were committed in previous years but reported that the clearance rate for the killings was just under 50%.

The department, which says it takes more illegal weapons off the street than any other local police force in the United States, said that it took a record 12,088 guns off the street in 2021. That total coincided with the creation of a Gun Investigations Team that has focused on interrupting the flow of illegal guns into the city.

Brown, who came under scrutiny by some members of the City Council and others as the death toll mounted, said that he hopes to increase the number of detectives investigating violent crimes from 1,100 to 1,300 during the first few months of this year. And he said his goal is to reduce the caseload for detectives from about five to three cases per detective.

He also said the department hopes to recruit more new officers this year, and said, “There will be more officers on the street, not just in patrol cars or behind desks, to interact with all Chicagoans.”

Copyright AP - Associated Press

[dorankj]

Nope! Confirming what seemed common sense but lawmakers kept trying to pass laws around it, so SCOTUS needed to confirm so you ‘progressives’ would get it.

[mister_coffee]

...THAT is what SCOTUS is for, NOT re-interpreting the constitution for ‘modern times’. ...

I find it interesting then, that until the 2008 Heller decision the Supreme Court never bothered to say the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. I'm sure you are intrigued as well. If that wasn't a reinterpretation of over two centuries of jurisprudence I do not know what was.

[dorankj]

You guys always miss the big one when it comes to guns, there’s no ‘constitutional right’ to taking drugs or driving or for that matter killing your unborn child! All our laws are subject to constitutional compliance, THAT is what SCOTUS is for, NOT re-interpreting the constitution for ‘modern times’. Neither can SCOTUS make new laws that you can’t get through the Congress, they can remove laws that don’t pass muster and hold the executive in check for attempting to ‘enforce’ law illegally or against the constitution. We, as a society have really become ignorant to our system in our zeal the demonize and destroy our political enemies!

[PAL]

Hey Mickey, we had chili too last night. I was up at 5:45!
And NO to the indoor pool and hot tub. Cripes.
We can blame, we can piss and moan. But no more children being murdered at schools or anywhere for that matter.
Maybe the Red Flag alerts will help. The kids know what's going on usually in their school or outside of it.
I don't care what people say, we'll become numb to it in a couple of weeks if no other shootings occur.
We'll learn to live with this violence, which has been going on for quite some time. From the beginning of time, huh. Just like living with Covid now.
Guns won't be given up. Are you kidding?
A peaceful society would be the greatest thing all over the world.

[Chitta]

If the Democrats wanted fewer guns on the street, they would volunteer to turn theirs in. But obviously it is just about power once again while pretending to "care". Oh gosh golly that evil Trump for forcing them to say one thing while doing another. Bad Trump, bad Putin. Bravo Joe for buying more from Venezuela to help out his good buddy. Soo much integrity.

[dorankj]

Or blaming the people who have never done anything wrong with guns and who vow to stop the bad guys if at all possible (and has been done so many times before cops can arrive)!

[pasayten]

I believe he's referring to the personal responsibility we have to our community and how we tend to blame others instead of being accountable for our own actions when something goes wrong.

Like blaming Biden for high gas prices when its really us who are over consuming the planets natural resources while oil companies are reaping record profits.

Oh... Kind of like blaming guns/manufacturers and not the people who are using them for violence and illegal purposes...

[pasayten]

Welcome back... Use you big person words...

[Chitta]

Trump and Putin forced me to put my shoes on the wrong feet this morning, and my neighbor still hasn't brought them back!