Pioneer Fire Info - Lake Chelan

[pasayten]

I will post daily Public and Briefing maps in different sizes so user can choose according to his bandwidth...

7/20/2024:

Public:
36 x 48
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 720day.pdf
8 x 11
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 720day.pdf

Briefing:
36 x 48
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 720day.pdf

[just-jim]

.
Yep…you found it, Ray.

Back when I was still in that game….I knew about this site.
But, it was usually just the place that only GIS and data nerds (you know, like you, Ray!) used. LOL!

Seriously….the average interested public viewer shouldn’t have to go through such contortions to get good, current, relevant fire information!
.

[pasayten]

Good job on getting the operations map... Yes, they are very stingy with data...

I have tracked down the public data source docs and maps full directory...
Yes many files are LARGE... Glad I have Starlink...

I can give links to 36 x 48 very large
or 18 x 24 large... Which would folks like?

https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... ashington/

I will load new stuff as it becomes available... Examples of 36 x 48...

7/20 Stehekin Operations Map... https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 240720.pdf
7/20 Briefing Map... https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 240720.pdf

7/20 Operations Overview... https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 240720.pdf

7/20 Public info... https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 240720.pdf

[just-jim]

.
Ive been arguing - to put it politely - with folks doing fire information for the Pioneer fire. They’ve been un-helpful, at best, in meeting my requests for a better map than the VERY poor one they have been providing in their e-mail daily updates.

I finally got a link to the map (the one that might be seen on the Facebook video briefings) - but which they have refused, for some reason, to provide.

I used to do a lot of fire information work and it irks me to go thru what I had to. I dont know why thy cant/wont share this PUBLIC information.

Here’s today’s version. https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inciden ... 240719.pdf

I’ll try and post additional updates - if I can. These are BIG files…..take a while to load.
.

[pasayten]

#PioneerFire2024 Quick Facts for July 19, 2024:
• 25,688 acres*
• 14% contained
• 14 crews, 8 helicopters, 22 engines, 24 water tenders, 19 heavy equipment

#EasyFire2024 Quick Facts for July 19, 2024:
• 107 acres
• 0% contained
• Resources shared with Pioneer Fire

The Pioneer Fire Complex Incident Management Team is assuming command of the Easy Fire that started on July 18. The Easy Fire rapidly emerged and more details will be available soon.

Photo Caption: Smoke column rising from Fish Creek on the Pioneer Fire 7/17.

*Acreage pending updated IR data

[pasayten]

July 18th status report video...

https://www.facebook.com/61560760893080 ... 4775243242

[pasayten]

DANG!!!! Heading to the Ovals...

[pasayten]

#PioneerFire2024 Daily Update July 17, 2024 (they had date as 16)
541-861-5808, staffed 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.
2024.pioneer@firenet.gov
Incident Commander Jeff Dimke
Complex Incident Management Team Northwest 12
Start date: June 8, 2024
Location: 31 miles northwest of Chelan, WA
Containment: 14%
Fire size: 23,529 acres
Cause: Human caused, under investigation
Total personnel: 794; 18 crews, 9 helicopters, 20 engines, 23 water tenders, 18 heavy equipment
𝗧𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗯𝗲 𝗮 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗺𝘂𝗻𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗺𝗲𝗲𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼𝗻𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗮𝘁 𝟱:𝟯𝟬 𝗣𝗠 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝘀𝗼𝗻 𝗛𝗶𝗴𝗵 𝗦𝗰𝗵𝗼𝗼𝗹. 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗺𝗲𝗲𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗮𝗹𝘀𝗼 𝗯𝗲 𝘀𝘁𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗺𝗲𝗱 𝗹𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗼𝗻 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗣𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗿 𝗙𝗶𝗿𝗲 𝗜𝗻𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝗙𝗮𝗰𝗲𝗯𝗼𝗼𝗸 𝗽𝗮𝗴𝗲. 𝗣𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘀𝗲 𝘀𝘂𝗯𝗺𝗶𝘁 𝗾𝘂𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝘀 𝗶𝗻 𝗮𝗱𝘃𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝟮𝟬𝟮𝟰.𝗽𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗿@𝗳𝗶𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘁.𝗴𝗼𝘃 𝗼𝗿 𝘃𝗶𝗮 𝗙𝗮𝗰𝗲𝗯𝗼𝗼𝗸 𝗠𝗲𝘀𝘀𝗲𝗻𝗴𝗲𝗿. 𝗧𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗮𝗹𝘀𝗼 𝘄𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗯𝗲 𝗮 𝗦𝘁𝗲𝗵𝗲𝗸𝗶𝗻 𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗺𝘂𝗻𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗺𝗲𝗲𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗿𝗼𝘄 𝗮𝘁 𝟲 𝗣𝗠 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗚𝗼𝗹𝗱𝗲𝗻 𝗪𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝗩𝗶𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗼𝗿 𝗖𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗿.
The Pioneer Fire is burning within a mountainous and remote area on the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest near Lake Chelan. Firefighters are using a full suppression response in the Lake Chelan-Sawtooth Wilderness to protect values at risk, life, and property, with firefighter and public safety as the primary objective. The communities of Chelan, Manson, and Stehekin are open and continue to welcome visitors.
Operations: Firefighters capitalized on the successful Monday night firing operation around Round Mountain yesterday by initiating a limited point protection firing operation along Fish Creek, from the mountain’s north side down to the lake. This point protection operation was successful. Several miles away, fire behavior increased and moved into Hunt’s Creek, unrelated to the point protection firing operation. Firefighters also completed the indirect contingency line along Cooper’s Ridge toward Parrish Peak.
Firefighters and fire engines from the Pioneer Fire have been assisting Chelan County Fire Districts 5 and 7 with structure assessments in and around Manson. They will continue to coordinate with the local fire districts to ensure accurate structural assessments and inventory data are available if the need arises. The forecasted turbulent weather today with gusty outflow winds may cause profuse spotting and high-intensity fire behavior in active drainages such as Flick Creek, Middle Fork Prince Creek (Cub Lake) and East Fork Fish Creek, which has extensive bug-killed and downed timber. Firefighters from the Pioneer Fire are available to assist with new initial attack fires in the area.
Safety and Closures: The Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest has a closure order in place for much of the fire area. Details and maps are available at: https://bit.ly/PioneerClosure. There is a Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR) in place over the fire: https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_4_6779.html. Drone activity is prohibited under the TFR, as helicopters cannot fly with unauthorized drones present.
Evacuations: The Chelan County Sheriff extended the level 3 evacuation up lake to Hazard Creek along Lake Chelan, now encompassing Safety Harbor to Hazard Creek. Level 1, 2 and 3 evacuation levels remain in effect around the Pioneer Fire. Please visit https://t.ly/QoH9w for more information.
Weather and Smoke: A Red Flag Warning is in effect today for dry thunderstorms and abundant lightning, and a heat advisory remains in effect. The air quality outlook can be found at: https://bit.ly/PioneerFireSmoke. Learn more about smoke at http://wasmoke.blogspot.com/. The fire marshal issued fire danger ratings and restrictions: https://t.ly/WLBds.

[just-jim]

• 14 crews, 9 helicopters, 20 engines, 23 water tenders, 18 heavy equipment

Where would they be using the engines, water tenders, and heavy equipment? There are no roads within the fire perimeter or actually even very close to it. You certainly can't drive to any of the houses along Lake Chelan that are in the Level 3 evacuation zone either.

They are doing ‘prep’ work in the built up areas as far away as Manson. And there is a lot of machinery widening old fire lines and road clearing along the Okanogan/Chelan divide and down in the roaded areas above/NW of Manson and Antilon Lake, etc.

I’d be very surprised if some engines and other equipment hasnt b een barged into Stehekin as well.
.

[Rideback]

Listed today at 23,529 acres.

[mister_coffee]

• 14 crews, 9 helicopters, 20 engines, 23 water tenders, 18 heavy equipment

Where would they be using the engines, water tenders, and heavy equipment? There are no roads within the fire perimeter or actually even very close to it. You certainly can't drive to any of the houses along Lake Chelan that are in the Level 3 evacuation zone either.

[pasayten]

#PioneerFire2024 Quick Facts for July 17, 2024:
• 20,348 acres*
• 14% contained
• 14 crews, 9 helicopters, 20 engines, 23 water tenders, 18 heavy equipment

Access to the Pioneer Fire has been challenging throughout the duration of the fire. More boats are arriving to shuttle firefighters across Lake Chelan to reach the fireline. Photo credit: Zac Doll

(*Acreage pending updated IR data)

[pasayten]

[pasayten]

Dang!!!! This sucks!!! Stehekin must be very worried...

Chelan County Emergency Management

PIONEER FIRE EVACUATION UPDATE: The Level 3 (get out now!) evacuation area has been extended up lake to Hazard Creek. Level 3 is now from Safety Harbor to Hazard Creek.

The community of Stehekin remains under a Level 1 fire advisory. The fire is still south of Stehekin. Fire managers and Emergency Management are monitoring the situation closely and re-evaluating evacuation levels regularly. We will keep you updated. For fire updates go to Pioneer Fire Information on facebook at https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61560760893080

Evacuation levels are updated on the Chelan County Emergency Incidents Map:
https://chelangis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/ ... OGM4fpBseg

[mister_coffee]

On aircraft, I think people also forget that there aren't really that many firefighting aircraft, and only a handful of large tankers.

Deciding where they will be deployed is a complex and weighty decision and it is important to keep in mind that even if an aircraft can easily fly from one airfield to another, the support infrastructure that keeps that plane operating can't be moved as easily or quickly.

[pasayten]

Current info facebook link...

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61560760893080

[just-jim]

.
I spent the first 1/2+ of my fire career working in aviation….mostly helicopters. Then the last 1/3 working in fire information.

This evening I read the following from the Pioneer Info FB page. It’s THE best single, concise and accurate response to the ‘why dont they just dump more water on it’ from well-meaning - but un-informed or ignorant - people on FB:

“Imagine flying into the deep drainage of the Colorado River just past Hoover Dam. The 56% slope of the face of Hoover Dam is comparable to the extremely steep terrain in areas of the Pioneer Fire.
Firefighting pilots are some of the most skilled in the industry, however, aerial firefighting is one of the highest risk operations utilized in wildland fire. Something we consider is whether the probability of success using these resources without firefighters on the ground is high enough to warrant the exposure for our pilots.
Here are additional answers to some of the most common questions we have received regarding the use of aircraft on the #PioneerFire2024:
• We have used numerous helicopters to dump over a million gallons of water on the fire so far.
• Aerial retardant from fixed wing air tankers should be dropped very close to the ground to be effective, typically between 150 feet to 250 feet above ground level. On relatively flat ground, this is feasible, but it is always risky operating large and heavy aircraft so close to the ground with limited safety margins. Attempting to fly air tankers in the extremely steep mountains and narrow canyons where much of the fire is burning is simply not feasible. Fixed wing air tankers cannot safely maneuver into the narrow and deep drainages where the fire is burning.
• Because of the high temperatures, low humidity, and winds influenced by the topography, dropping water from a safer, higher height in this hot weather merely produces a mist that evaporates midair. In areas with dense tree canopies, a large portion of water or retardant dropped from aircraft will never reach the fire burning on the ground.
• Dropping water or retardant alone will not put out a fire, especially with high intensity fire burning in heavy fuels. Aerial water or retardant drops can help moderate fire intensity and delay the fire spread. We need firefighters on the ground, in addition to aerial support, to be truly effective. We are unable to safely put firefighters in many of these extremely remote areas that lack viable escape routes or safety zones.
• During times of low visibility, aircraft cannot fly. This also limits our ability to extract personnel in the event of an emergency or serious injury.“
.

[pasayten]

PIONEER FIRE AT NEARLY 19,000 ACRES AS LOCAL FRUSTRATION MOUNTS
Jason Taylor
Published: July 15, 2024

The Pioneer Fire on Lake Chelan has ballooned to nearly 19,000 acres as of Monday morning.

The fire has spread north along the shoreline and Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3 evacuation notices have extended northward, with the Stehekin Valley area now under Level 1.

Chelan County Commissioner Tiffany Gering brought up the fire with fellow commissioners Monday morning during a public discussion.

She said there's frustration among area residents that crews are trying to keep the fire from spreading, rather than trying to put it out.

"The comment that I constantly hear is they're not trying to put the fire out," said Gering. "That isn't part of what the forest service does. From my understanding they used to. And now, that is a main concern of people is that it's not happening."


According to the incident management team handling the fire, helicopter bucket drops were being used Sunday morning, but fire activity increased and multiple spot fires established further up drainage near Dan’s Camp trail. At that point, crews were forced to disengage and move to a safe location.

The fire is now fully established on both sides of Fish Creek, which prompted the Chelan County Sheriff’s Office to issue the Level 1 evacuation advisory for the Stehekin area.

There are currently 786 crew members assigned to the Pioneer Fire. It's now burning 18,731 acres about 10 miles southeast of Stehekin. The fire is currently 14 percent contained.

Gering noted in the meeting with fellow commissioners that the management team on the fire has lost federal air resources recently.

She said the limited number of aircraft currently assigned to the fire is troubling to local residents.

"There is frustration that they are not attacking with air support, that they are not putting all of their resources in the air to get the fire out," Gering said.

The fire cost so far is pegged at $25 million. It's being handled jointly by the U.S. Forest Service, The National Park Service and the Washington Department of Natural Resources.


The Incident Commander is Jeff Dimke while Bob Shindelar is the Deputy Incident Commander for the team in charge of the fire - the Northwest Complex Incident Management Team 12.

Gering said the current Incident Commander lives in Wenatchee and would be the one person with knowledge of the terrain, the people and the frustrations who could have success in putting the fire out.

The current changes to evacuation levels for the Pioneer Fire are:

Level 3: Extends to Flick Creek
Level 2: Extends to Hazard Creek
Level 1: Extends through the Stehekin Valley to High Bridge
Level 1 is a fire advisory, warning people there is a wildfire in the area, and you should monitor fire resources.

The Chelan County Sheriff's Office says it's working with North Cascades National Park, The Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest, Washington Department of Natural Resources and the fire managers to constantly evaluate fire conditions and closures to ensure recreational areas remain open as long as access remains safe.

Picture on Facebook from Lucerne side looking towards fire...

[just-jim]

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Yes….they CAN carry a lot of fuel, but may ‘download’ on fuel in order to carry more water.

Likewise…they have to download on fuel/water to account for higher temperatures and/or higher elevations. The smaller/lighter helicopters are even more affected by temp and elevation.

[PAL]

I get it so the ones I'm seeing on the return trip are going for fuel, I bet.

[just-jim]

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The large helicopters are flying with empty buckets, I’d think.

It is possible they could dip from some source - high lake? - on the way over to the fire, IF they were working an area of the fire away from/far above Lake Chelan.
.

[PAL]

Thanks Jim. Sure does help. I noticed those boards on Fri. but they were blank. I thought that is what they were for.
So do the copters have full buckets when they leave the Valley? Or maybe not. Dipping out of Lk. Chelan? then coming back to refuel. I see one go over about every hour. Double rotors but also singles.
Golly it's dry and the wind is coming up.
I've listened to the briefings. Of course they are centered on taking care of stuctures in Stheiken.
We've fireproofed as much as possible. I get concerned about Newby Cr. which we look at.

[just-jim]

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Pearl…..a couple things things;

-the fire has been ‘on’ the OK-WEN NF since the beginning.

-I think that picture is looking up Prince creek.

-The fire folks have not done a very good job (in my opinion) - to date - on providing good info. But, just today, I see fire information boards at Hanks and Blue Star….so hopefully it improves. There is a GOOD ‘operations’ briefing posted daily about mid-morning. It is a short, 4- minute or so, video….posted on Facebook. Look for ‘Pioneer Fire Information’, then under videos. It’s a pretty good briefing.

-Yes, the helicopters staged at NCSB are the big type 1’s. They are fueling there….and carry 2+ hours of fuel, so flying back and forth with an empty bucket isnt a big deal…..it is actually closer to the fire from there than Chelan! On larger fires it is common to separate the larger helicopters from the others. I talked to one of the ground crews at Hanks last week.

Hope that helps….
.

[PAL]

It was looking nasty up here at Twisp River. We had ashfall overnight. For a couple of weeks we have had heli's heading towards the fire, from the Methow. FS claimed they knew nothing about them. They must be doing water drops where the fire is, as in the Fish Cr. and where the fire's edge is.
Now that it has crossed into Okanogan Wenatchee Nat'l Forest it would be nice to know what contingency plans there are should it come into the Oval Lks area, the Martin Lks. and Merchant's Basin area and Eagle Lks. It could run out of fuel due to the rocky terrain but I'm not counting on it.
Where is this pic taken from?

[pasayten]

#PioneerFire2024 Quick Facts for July 15, 2024:
• 15,757 acres (yesterday's acreage)
• 14% contained
• 16 crews, 9 helicopters, 18 engines, 21 water tenders, 17 heavy equipment
Earlier in the day yesterday, the fire crossed upper Fish Creek. Hotshot crews hiked in and took action, but were soon hampered by frequent spot fires as daytime temperatures peaked. Helicopters dropped water with minimal effectiveness due to the sheer intensity of the fire. Looking at the thick smoke column in the picture below, the amount of energy in the fire is evident.