Guilty!

[mister_coffee]

Can't argue with this "logic"

[Rideback]

Debunking Ken's arguments
https://popular.info/p/all-the-argument ... irect=true

[just-jim]

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[Rideback]

The logic question: According to Trump he never met Stormy, didn't know her but paid her $130,000 to keep quiet about something he says he never did never did. 2+2=22?

[just-jim]

...
Maybe to show solidarity all of his cult members will go get convicted of felonies too.

I stand corrected. The meme going around amongst the kooky right-wingers is that everybody commits felonies so Trump's should be no problem. You can only get to that conclusion if you know nothing about law. Which, come to think of it, explains a lot...

From H C Richardson, yesterday: “….. top sports talk host Colin Cowherd pushed back on the idea that the trial was rigged, telling his listeners: “If everybody in your circle is a felon, maybe it’s not rigged. Maybe the world isn’t against you.” “Donald Trump is now a felon,” Cowherd said. “His campaign chairman was a felon. So is his deputy campaign manager, his personal lawyer, his chief strategist, his National Security Adviser, his Trade Advisor, his Foreign Policy Adviser, his campaign fixer, and his company CFO. They’re all felons. Judged by the company you keep. It’s a cabal of convicts.””

Shouldn’t surprise us that pee-pants is now one, too, right?
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[mister_coffee]

A few questions come to mind, with respect to the belief that this guilty conviction will help Donald Trump win in November.

Does Donald Trump and his campaign believe this? Given how much money he has poured into fighting all of the cases against him it seems that they recognize that a criminal conviction is not good for his prospects.

Can anyone seriously believe that there is a large population of voters who are going to vote for Donald Trump because he is a convicted felon?

How can you simultaneously argue that a conviction will help Donald Trump at the polls and that these cases against Donald Trump are part of a vast Liberal Conspiracy to keep him out of public office?

If this conviction helps Donald Trump so much, why are so many of his supporters threatening violence?

[mister_coffee]

...
Maybe to show solidarity all of his cult members will go get convicted of felonies too.

I stand corrected. The meme going around amongst the kooky right-wingers is that everybody commits felonies so Trump's should be no problem. You can only get to that conclusion if you know nothing about law. Which, come to think of it, explains a lot...

[pasayten]

Facebook post... Pretty much sums it up...

It's not the Democrats stupid. Not the judge. Not Biden. It's your g*ddamned conduct that you always consider to be above reproach

[Rideback]

Meanwhile. Fox, Bannon, Jones, OAN, Newsmax are making ad money hand over fist with their coverage and viewership. Until covering up for Trump is no longer a treasure trove of income they will continue.

[just-jim]

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From Timothy Snyders substack - it’s about the lesson for democracy from watching kids in Kindergarten at play,

“The trial of the Queens man was not complicated. The law was clear, as were the facts. Jurors reached an unsurprising conclusion. To say that the trial must be political because it convicted a certain person is to say, falsely, that all trials are political. And to express confidence that friends on the Supreme Court will rule in a certain way is to do the thing you claim to be condemning. You are destroying the equipment.

To "lose without blaming" and to "respect the equipment" means thinking of others. No contest is just about the individual. It is about keeping something going, something that we can make better. If the equipment is just there for me, then I might think I have every right to destroy. But the equipment is only there because others assembled it for me. So it is my job to leave it in better shape than I found it.

Every so often there will be a person, like the Queens man, who likes to trash the equipment. This person might be charismatic, or talented, or attractive in any number of ways. He might have followers, be a bully, seem intimidating. There will always be weak and unprincipled people who will treat the loser as a winner, bringing us all down.

Some people never learned the lessons they should have learned in kindergarten. Yet there are more of us, I think, who heed the signs. You can "respect the equipment" by using it the right way. And the rule "lose without blaming" does not mean "lose." You can win while respecting the rules.

And sometimes you must.“

https://open.substack.com/pub/snyder/p/ ... -equipment
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[mister_coffee]

The jurors saw every piece of evidence first hand; they considered it all together. They decided it met the government’s burden of proving Donald Trump guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In our system of justice, that is their decision to make.

It is well worth making this point with anyone who questions the verdict. What approach would they rather have American justice use? A king? Is it Donald Trump who now metes out justice in America?

A better question: Why aren’t there calls for Trump to step down as the nominee? That is how any other politician would be treated.

From Joyce Vance's substack.

So how would Vern and Ken decide innocence or guilt? Keep in mind this is the same Vern who advocated for extreme punishments against peaceful but obnoxious protestors on certain university campuses.

[mister_coffee]

A Morning Consult poll published Saturday said 54% "strongly" or "somewhat" approved of the verdict, while 34% disapproved.

The poll conducted on Friday also said that 49% of Independents and 15% of Republicans said Trump should drop out of the race because of the conviction, although the former president has said he has no intention of doing that.

Hard to imagine that folks who approve of the verdict are going to vote for Orange Felon. Also hard to imagine that people who think she should drop out of the race would also vote for that. Of course it is still Early Days and those of us on the Side of Righteousness need to remember that the case against Evil won't necessarily make itself.

I'm also a little hornswoggled by the $53 million figure in 24 hours. We need to keep in mind that the people who are giving us those numbers are pretty much the same people who were found guilty in court of lying about financial matters. Of course they'd never lie about that.

[pasayten]

Boy Ray, that’s excellent legal analysis!

Sometimes you have to keep it simple for some folks.

[dorankj]

Boy Ray, that’s excellent legal analysis!

[just-jim]

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So…fair is fair…right?

Here is CONVICTED FELON - talking about why folks like him should be excluded from running;

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/03/politics ... index.html

“We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial,” Trump said during a November 5, 2016, campaign rally in Reno, Nevada, reviewed by CNN’s KFile. “It would grind government to a halt.”

So, of course, he will withdraw from this years election, right? It is the only honorable way for him.
He is an honorable man, isn’t he?
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[pasayten]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[Rideback]

Here's an explainer for you. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-char ... y-verdict/

He broke the law. He got caught.

[dorankj]

“Cover it up”? He listed as personal legal expenses to his lawyer (who put it together with questionable awareness by Trump per testimony) IF he had listed it as a campaign expense THEN it would have violated FEC rules (Edwards love child) There was never a “payment” to cover it up you’re ignorant but that’s not CNN breaking news. The 34 ‘counts’ are called prosecution stacking to make numbers seem bigger and are usually frowned upon when used to prosecute minorities and poor people but suddenly are just fine by you utter hypocrites!

[mister_coffee]

[Rideback]

Yes, most NDA's are legal. But this case was never resting on a NDA. It rested on the facts where Trump paid to cover it up in a way that broke campaign finance laws. His actions were taken to cover up the sex outside his marriage so as to benefit his campaign. As a bonus, receipts were brought and then explained by Cohen and Weiselberg how polling company Red Finch was paid to create inaccurate polling that favored Trump. The 34 counts represent the 34 checks issued by Trump to repay Cohen. Cohen has already gone to jail because he pleaded guilty to this specific coverup. Weiselberg has already admitted to multiple fraudulent acts and been incarcerated.

[dorankj]

Non disclosure agreements are NOT illegal! The ‘case’ was brought because supposedly it should have been classified as……no one really knows how a legal, common NDA should have been classified differently and how FEDERAL campaign finance law (looked at and not prosecuted) was allowed to be used in a state case to pretend this is criminal. It WILL be overturned, Trump WILL be re-elected by your fellow citizens and you fruit loops will shi* all over yourselves for another 4 years and I’m QUITE certain you will have all sorts of problems with corrupt, ‘illegitimate’ courts taking action you feel is out of their jurisdiction and appropriate or NOT taking action you think they must to produce outcomes you want, law be damned. But you’ll pretend you never held your current views and your side is honest and forthright and of course any dissent is Nazi and racist.

[just-jim]

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Waaahhhh -Ken won’t have pee pants to vote for anyways!

Wa has a law against Felons running for office.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... or-office/

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[Rideback]

Ken, the fraud scheme was hatched just days before the '16 election and the payout of the $35,000 a month checks were signed while Trump was in the Oval Office. The amt paid out to Cohen was according to the plan that was in writing by Trump's accountant. In writing. The taped phone conversation laid out how Trump was aware of the scheme and agreed to it. So your thinking that this happened in '15 doesn't work.

[mister_coffee]

Sick and tired of these goddam anti-American hippies attacking the justice system, comparing this country to foreign dictatorships, vilifying the FBI, flying the American flag upside down.

Apparently Ken should have offered his services as Trump's legal advisor, since apparently the people he hired at premium prices aren't doing their jobs very well if the case against him was so weak. And that $50 million his campaign claims to have raised will just about cover his legal fees through the convention. If all of those people second-guessing the case are so damned smart, why ain't they rich? And why weren't they working on the case?

The fact of the matter is that Mr Trump got a fair trial, from a scrupulous and competent judge who gave him incredible leeway and showed great forbearance against his appalling courtroom demeanor. And a jury of 12 citizens found him guilty. You might not agree with the verdict but you shouldn't go around attacking the integrity of the court or the jury.

I also wish that the apologists for the now-convicted felon Trump would at least have original arguments and not rehash right-wing loony tunes talking points or the words of the Dear Cult Leader.

[PAL]

Project 2025 will make our country great again, so the framers of this document say. The ones to watch for are not necesarrily Trump, but who is in the background. Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone, Flynn. He'll bring them back. Then it will be retribution while and they won't be paying attention to the things they should be paying attention to.